Interview with Iris Compiet

^^ We cover so much in our discussion with Iris. We talk about finding your way through a rocky career start, overcoming adversity, and making room for being yourself.

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Hi friends, Sarah D here.
This is the transcribed conversation made via HappyScribe.
We know some people like to read more than listen and vice versa, and we will always try to provide both when we can. HappyScribe is roughly 80% accurate.

Also a huge thanks to our guest: Iris Compiet. Check out her art!
Website • Instagram • Patreon

Happy Art Making!
-Sarah
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Interview with Iris Transcribed Conversation

Speaker 1 (00:00)
Hey, everyone, this is Sarah and Sarah and Iris Compiet from mindbodyartist.Com. And today we are interviewing Iris and we're going to be asking her a whole bunch of questions. But anyways, before we get started, would you mind giving us a quick intro of who you are, what you do and where people can find you online to support you and all your endeavors?

Speaker 2 (00:27)
Yeah, sure. So my name is Iris, and I'm a traditional artist from the Netherlands. I self published Fairies of the Faultlines, which was Kickstarted. It was a really big success in 2017. I think that's been published, picked up by a publisher, almost sold out. I think it's actually sold out by now. I've done Dark Crystal artwork for it. Done Labyrinth, which is coming out in June of this year, been working for Netflix. I've been doing Magic the Gathering stuff. I do sculpting. I do pretty much whatever I like to do whenever I like to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:14)
I'm fully independent and I probably have a weird business model as an artist, but it works for me. You can find my art on Instagram. Just look under Iris Compiet, same with Twitter, Facebook, Patreon also ewiscompete and my website is https://iriscompiet.art/, which is really simple.

Speaker 1 (01:44)
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:45)
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:45)
So basically they just need to know your name to find you anywhere.

Speaker 2 (01:50)
You can search for ferries of default lines. I mean, usually that brings up quite some hits nowadays, even if you look for Brian Fraud, sometimes there's pop something up. So it's kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (02:07)
That's so cool that Brian Froud was involved. Did he write the introduction for Fairies of the Fault line? Yes.

Speaker 2 (02:16)
And he did so for the first version, like the first edition I published myself. And then for the new flourish and the new edition that's published through Eye of Nude Books in Canada. I asked Alan Lee as well, so I basically got them both to write an intro for The Broken Full Circle.

Speaker 1 (02:43)
That's super cool. Was I so happy when you announced that I was really cool.

Speaker 2 (02:48)
Thank you. The first time I knew I set out to these things, you dare to dream about how it will be when you ask one of your heroes, like, aren't heroes to write an email for your book? You're like they're never going to say yes. And it's scary. But I just wrote an email and just asked. And I knew weeks and weeks before I announced it that it was happening and that was some of that news. It's so difficult to keep your mouth shut because you want to shout it out over every single rooftop.

Speaker 3 (03:29)
That's how you end up making all the vague posts that are like something excited happened. I can't tell anyone about it.

Speaker 2 (03:39)
I tend to try not to do anything.

Speaker 3 (03:48)
I always do it but apologize.

Speaker 1 (03:50)
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (03:53)
I just run around my studio screaming and yelling and doing the whole thing. And sometimes I start typing the post and then deleting everything just so you got it out, right?

Speaker 1 (04:12)
Yeah, I'll type here.

Speaker 2 (04:15)
It's just that I made a mistake and hit send or hit Tweet or whatever, and it's there. I don't do that anymore. Just don't because the repercussions if something goes wrong. No, don't not do that's fair.

Speaker 3 (04:35)
I want to follow you on Instagram and you already follow me. So now I'm following you back.

Speaker 2 (04:42)
We're mutuals now. Best photo reference ever. Oh, thank you. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (04:49)
So I guess since we're already on the topic of social media, do you mind talking about how you run your social media presence? And if you have any challenges, you have a large following. So are there any challenges or do you have a schedule or just what your social media likes?

Speaker 2 (05:07)
Like, I have no schedule. I have no plan, nothing. Like I said, I post whenever I like it, when I want to and when I have something. And sometimes I used to post almost every day, at least a couple of times a week. But when you get to the point of having client work that's quite demanding. Like, for instance, the stuff I've done for Netflix or the stuff I've done for the Btries, you're pretty much working on that client stuff for 40 hours a week, if not more.

Speaker 2 (05:52)
And there is so little time to do anything else. And I do not wish to spend the little time I do have trying to cater to social media whims because it's basically, you know, I can't beat the algorithm anyway, but why try? I think I've been lucky. My social media started to grow in, I think, 2016 when I started doing some weekly sketches or daily sketches even. And before that I had maybe 1000 followers and in a couple of weeks that turned into 50,000 30,000 and I believe it's now $133,000 and I don't know how you don't.

Speaker 3 (06:46)
It might be because your art is really good.

Speaker 2 (06:49)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:52)
It could be the quality.

Speaker 2 (06:55)
Something I can't really be bothered by trying to crack the algorithm because I feel it's such a waste of my time. I know I'm in a privileged position for saying this because I have good following and I can imagine that if you don't have a lot of followers, it's just daunting and frustrating in the end. For me, it's about the art anyway.

Speaker 1 (07:23)
No, I think that's great. I think a lot of times what you just said, it's all about the art. That might be like the crux of it. I know you're getting out there, but trying to beat the algorithm, they keep changing the rules every day.

Speaker 2 (07:39)
Yeah, it feels like raining and the energy you're spending on trying to change that algorithm could best be spent on creating art and just posting it. Just post the art you want and don't even bother with what's the best time to post? Because somewhere somebody in the world is going to be awake to CDR anyway. If it clicks with somebody, they'll follow you me. It's just keep on going and keep producing or creating, not producing. It's creating. But do it for yourself. Don't do it for the numbers.

Speaker 2 (08:24)
Do it because you want to see the art happen and not because you think that other people want to see art like that, because that's just story for the world. Bullshit. I've done that. I've tried doing what was trendy, and it made me absolutely freaking miserable. There's no sense in being miserable when you're creating art. I do not see any sense in sitting behind my desk and creating something that isn't me. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't absolutely doesn't make sense. And for me, that's the most important thing is that I create something that I would like to see in the world, be it for a client or for myself.

Speaker 2 (09:17)
Everything I do is because I want to do it. And I approach these things as if they're my projects.

Speaker 3 (09:27)
Your social accounts. You said they've pretty much just grown organically, like, over the years, you've just built it up and you've had a couple of things go around and then that gets you more followers. Do you know offhand what year you started posting on social media and about how long it took for you to kind of build up?

Speaker 2 (09:43)
Oh, man, I think I don't really know. For instance, when I began with Instagram, I think it's 20, 11, 20, 12.

Speaker 3 (09:53)
Okay, that's about yeah. Okay. So ten years, maybe.

Speaker 2 (09:57)
And then in 2016, that's when things really happened for me. So before that time, I would be lucky if I got, like, 20 likes likes that kind of numbers. But then in 2016, I pretty much gave up on trying to chase the dream of being a full time artist. I gave up because I wasn't getting anywhere and I wasn't having fun. And I still had a day job. I worked as a graphic designer, so the bills were paid, and I was like, Nobody's going to hire is hiring me.

Speaker 2 (10:41)
My art is not popular. It's not going anywhere. I wasn't getting into spectrum. I wasn't getting into anything.

Speaker 1 (10:49)
And I was like.

Speaker 2 (10:50)
You know, done trying to visually sound like people I see that are popular, and I'd rather just do the stuff I enjoy. Like, I wanted to create what I wanted to create. And then I started doing daily sketches, not even perfect sketches, just random quick sketches of what a Mermaid would look like for me. And I did that every day and posted it with a little bit of story. And that was so much fun.

Speaker 3 (11:39)
This is such solid advice. And so many artists have said this to us, and we just see it across all these conversations. And it's like every artist hates to hear it because they're like, no, there must be a secret. The secret is to just do what you love and it shines.

Speaker 2 (11:55)
Yeah. I truly believe that if you are doing the art, you should be doing that's uniquely you that it shines through the joy you have when you create it. It does shine through. And oftentimes I don't even care about the finished product or the finished piece that people post. I want to see your sketches.

Speaker 1 (12:18)
I love sketches. I love when people post sketches.

Speaker 2 (12:22)
Yes, because you're getting a glimpse of their thought process, of their minds. And it's so much it's oftentimes sorry for this, but it's oftentimes better than the finished artwork because in the finished artwork, it's usually also edited and it's like, yeah, it's perfect, but it doesn't have room for me as a viewer to imagine what could be.

Speaker 3 (12:49)
Sketches have so much energy and so much like personality. And it's like they've always been one of my favorites.

Speaker 2 (13:00)
I would buy sketchbooks from us over finished off books all the time, like, hands down, best things ever. They inspire me so much more than finished pieces. But that's a whole different subject, of course. But for me, when I started, I just posting sketches and people seem to stick with it. It seemed to tap into something that people really liked, and they were asking for more. And I started doing June Fee, even though I fought to never draw fairies, it's actually a funny story, because in the Netherlands, when you say to people, when I said to people that I was a fantasy artist, people got this weird look in their eyes like, oh, you draw fairies.

Speaker 2 (14:03)
No fantasy is much more than just fairies. It is just a stigma attached to it over here. It's like, no, I'm never drawing fairies unless they're being eaten by hags in a stew.

Speaker 3 (14:22)
That sounds like great art, too.

Speaker 1 (14:24)
Yeah, well, your fairies are not like your fairies go back to being more old school back when was it like, Grims fairy tales? Those used to be super scary.

Speaker 2 (14:43)
It's more mythology, old school, old folklore related. And it's nature spirits that I paint. Basically, that's the best way to describe them, but it's funny to see that most of my work is now ferry related, and people call me a ferry office, which is not really people like boxes, don't they?

Speaker 1 (15:14)
Oh, they love boxes. We like to categorize.

Speaker 2 (15:21)
Yeah, that never works for me because I do so many things. It's like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:27)
Oh, you know what? This is interesting because I run into that because people for me are like, Well, are you a 2D artist or are you a 3D artist? And I was like, Well, I kind of am a both artist, and you're a both artist, too. So do you ever have any troubles with that, or do you just keep doing whatever you want to do and roll on?

Speaker 2 (15:45)
I just keep doing whatever I want to do, because the sculpture I don't do it 3D in the computer. I pick up a bunch of clay, and I start playing with clay. Actually, it was born out of necessity because in 2016, I was also pretty much in a burnout because of the day job, and my hand was just I was so overworked that my right hand, my drawing hand was just so painful and I couldn't do much else. So I was like, I need to do something because you know how it goes, the inspiration and the ideas keep coming, but you have no outlet to let them pour them into it.

Speaker 2 (16:37)
So it's like in your head, it becomes this pressure cooker with ideas, and it's just so annoying. So I started doing sculpting with monster clay, which you can heat up to make it softer. And the warm clay really helped my hands and then cope. Or the kneading of the clay helped me exercise those muscles. So it was a win win situation. I exercised my arm and I did 3D to my Arsenal of things.

Speaker 1 (17:19)
I can do that's kind of genius.

Speaker 2 (17:23)
Well, you have to figure out what works for you.

Speaker 3 (17:26)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:26)
Exactly. So you mentioned inspiration just now, and people do want to know where you get your ideas and your inspiration from.

Speaker 2 (17:36)
I mean, that's a question I get so often that and which brush you use.

Speaker 1 (17:44)
But don't you use? You use physical brushes, right.

Speaker 3 (17:50)
Do people still ask you?

Speaker 1 (17:52)
Yeah. They really do. Like, what number watercolor brush you use?

Speaker 3 (17:57)
What size? So artists have been getting asked that question, probably for millennia.

Speaker 2 (18:05)
Why people want to know? Because it's the same with paper. I also want to know what paper people are using because I want to try it.

Speaker 3 (18:15)
Yeah. What's the tooth on that?

Speaker 2 (18:16)
What's the weight if you want to try it. Same with brushes. But people need to understand that a brush or paper or whatever is just a tool. It's about how you use it. What works for me doesn't have to work for you. The way things to offer you. The truth might be too much. It's good to ask these questions, but also good. It's not going to be the magic answer to give you the way to create like I do. It's never going to happen. There's so many factors in there, but it's interesting that that's one of the questions people always ask.

Speaker 2 (18:57)
And now I forgot the question you asked inspiration. The other one. It could be something that somebody tells me, like a phrase or something. I see literally anything can just pop in my head and just spark an idea. But usually it's also. I sit down with my sketchbook and just put my pen on paper or pencil on paper and let my pencil wander. And those scribbles turn into a sketch. And that sketch forms another sketch and so on. And at the end of an evening, I'll have 2345, maybe more, maybe less pages filled with just random sketches, and they will spark ideas I never throw out sketchbooks.

Speaker 2 (19:57)
I never throw anything away because something that I've drawn I sketched five years ago would have probably not been interesting for me five years ago. And then I go back and look at it. I'm like, this is something I want to do. Inspiration. People are always trying to chase it, but I think it's mostly coming from you in the sense that you have to be open and willing to let things idea form in your head or on the paper or whatever. And that's just maybe a mental state you have to be in.

Speaker 2 (20:46)
If I'm working for a client and there's a deadline, and I'm working on that client for a client for a whole day, like, eight to 10 hours, maybe there is no way I can switch off that client brain and go into my own world. It's so difficult. I have to be in the right mindset. I have to be completely relaxed and ready to go and same with inspiration.

Speaker 3 (21:15)
It's like what you said about how my brain just derailed when you were saying how you kind of had given up on art, and you were like, whatever this isn't working for me. I just want to do what I want. And it was sort of like as soon as you stopped trying to force out the things, you were able to sort of let your natural interest sort of flow out of you.

(21:41)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:42)
And I think that's one of the big things that I feel very strongly about is that I try not to expect anything from myself, because if I start expecting that, I'll create a new masterpiece today, I'll set myself up for failure, and I'll just beat myself up over it. If I'm just enjoying the moment of creation of sketching a page of random doodles, there's something I've achieved. I've done that, and there's potential stories in there. So maybe it's just letting go of that expectation that gives me just so much freedom, and it works for everything.

Speaker 2 (22:39)
It works for me personally. It works for my social media. I'm not trying to gain more followers. I'm not trying to gain more patrons. Yes, it's nice, of course, but I'd rather spend my energy reading sketching, which is what I love so dearly than chasing something else, like chasing something that has no control over.

Speaker 1 (23:11)
Wow.

Speaker 2 (23:14)
It's something that's mine. And there's always something coming to the page and always something that is a potential masterpiece or new story or new book or new idea. So why would I try to convince people to follow me? They like it. They'll follow me. If they don't, they won't.

Speaker 1 (23:44)
I need to remember that I put so much pressure on myself when I go down to sketch. It's like one of the most nerve wracking times for me, because I have expectations. I'm like, I want it to come out good, or I want it to be the next cool thing or whatever. And as a result, I don't sketch a lot.

Speaker 2 (24:04)
That's not unique. People have that. But sketching is so much fun. Some people won't ever like it. That's fine. Whatever works for you. There's something freeing about for me. It's total freedom because it doesn't have to be perfect. I can fuck up completely. You've seen the fuck up by singer Sergeant, where he tried to draw a horse and just didn't succeed and furiously scratched it out. And it's so it's so good to see that. Yeah, you might be a great artist, but you fucked up there.

Speaker 1 (24:53)
Dude, your horse is bad.

Speaker 2 (24:57)
Your horse is bad. You should check. Use some reference next time, dude. But for me, my sketchbooks, those are my treasures. Those are my treasure troves. And those are in Teeny Tiny Doodles. There's a complete story. And, yeah, I tend to never really get everything out. I love to discover new things and let the material do its thing and just react to it. Pretty much chaos, but it's like herding cats sometimes, but it works.

Speaker 3 (25:41)
It's been a few years since I've drawn regularly. I kind of got off that boat for a little while, and I'm doing other kind of other creative things, but I've always sort of been thinking, like, man, when I get back to it, it's going to be like a sketchbook that no one sees.

Speaker 2 (25:59)
Why wouldn't you show people when I was at Lightbox and CTN and stuff like that? I had a lot of people coming up to me asking me if they could show me their stuff, and they gave me their portfolios, and it was all so perfect. But I didn't know how many hours they spent on that. Like, maybe they spend 60 hours on one piece. And when I asked them, I see sketches. Everybody's like, oh, wow. They're not so good. They're not so good. But it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (26:43)
Artists will not criticize you for your sketches not being good. We all have sketches in our sketchbooks that are not really good that have wonky anatomy, but it's about you look past those things. I do. I look at your ideas. Like, do you have the idea? Do you have it? Can you envision things? Can you think of wonderful, exciting new things? I can get very excited seeing quickly doodle for me. Perfect to show or say where people do something really special. And the sketchbooks are sketchbooks, and I view them as playgrounds.

Speaker 2 (27:50)
That makes sense. It's a playground where you can just do whatever.

Speaker 1 (27:54)
No, that's an awesome way. That's an awesome way to look at it.

Speaker 3 (27:59)
Yeah. Sorry. You know, about the benefits play.

Speaker 1 (28:02)
Yeah, I'm trying to definitely play more this year.

Speaker 3 (28:06)
You got to apply it to your art now.

Speaker 1 (28:08)
Well, it's funny that you mentioned that because I've been making a new creature, and I've been like, studying this creature and studying this creature. And I was like, It might be really cool if there was little kind of parasite creatures that lived on top of it. And at first I was like, no, you set out to do this one creature and you're not going to deviate and you're not going to go and do that. And then yesterday I was like, you know, but yesterday I was like, you know what?

Speaker 1 (28:38)
I'm going to do it. I was like, Fridays are going to be my day where I get to play in my world. Actually, if I want to draw some random new thing, I'm going to do it on Friday. And I had an awesome time yesterday. It was great. I made these weird little things that are going to live on the back of, like, a big monster. It's going to have, like, little flying devil monsters that live on top of its back. And I enjoyed making my little flying devil monster so much.

Speaker 2 (29:05)
Those actually add to the story of that creature.

Speaker 1 (29:09)
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (29:10)
All new mythology and world, and it's part of world building. It's just a creature is never a standalone thing. It's always a situation. It's always in an environment. It's always acting and reacting to other things. Yeah. It's definitely integral part of designing, I think, or for us, just enjoy no sense in not enjoying it, right?

Speaker 1 (29:42)
That's such a good point. Such a good point.

Speaker 2 (29:48)
So when I said that I was completely done trying to be an artist and a career, I meant, like, actually a career. I was so burnt out by trying to chase that career that I was like, okay, well, I'm going to stop doing this and have fun and just have fun and go back to why I wanted to be an artist because I knew at age seven I wanted to be an artist. That was just no questions. I'm going to be an artist. And I had so much fun drawing and painting at that age.

Speaker 2 (30:23)
I wanted to feel that I wanted to be very happy just sliding behind my desk and just create. And there's something magical about the work we do as artists every single day. You are creating something that's never been seen before or creating you're basically a real wizard.

Speaker 1 (30:50)
I love looking at it like that. So that was actually pretty good. Segue, would you mind describing what, like, a typical day is for you? Because I know that you've worked for some really big clients, and I also know that you kind of value your time, like, your recharge time and your time off. So I'd love to know what your normal day to day is like.

Speaker 2 (31:13)
I wish I was really good at planning, but I'm not fuck it. I always have, like, this is how I'm going to do it. And then I keep at schedule for a week and then I fuck up already. But basically, I get up quite early, usually 06:30 a.m.. In the morning, and then around 730 or 08:00 a.m.. I'll start work, depending if I'm working for a client or not. Like when I was doing Netflix stuff, I basically had to work a full day, full hours. It was a 40 hours week.

Speaker 2 (31:52)
So you had to give those hours. Same with Crystal book that I did over 1000 sketches for that. So that was a lot of work and I would just begin and then work until about twelve, then have a break, something, go back, work again, eat again. That kind of stuff. I try to always stop working in the studio around 900 in the evening, sometimes earlier, preferably earlier, and then just have a sketchbook on my lap in the evenings. But a typical day is just 08:00 a.m. To start work.

Speaker 2 (32:50)
No, I don't have a day, like on Monday. I do my taxes. I wish I did that. I answer emails. It's just whatever I feel like doing. If I have the energy to answer all the emails, do it. If I don't, won't. If it's not a rush thing for a client, then I'll be okay leaving an email for a day or two. If it's not urgent, it's okay to let it be for a while. It all depends on how I'm feeling. So each morning I just gauged what my energy level is and then see what happens.

Speaker 2 (33:42)
And I know that sounds probably very unprofessional, but it works for me. I always meet my deadlines. My clients do not have any complaints about me being never being on time or whatever. That doesn't happen. It's just I keep a very close eye on my deadlines. I'm very open in my communications. I listen to my body as well. If it's not working out. If there's days that I sit behind my desk and it's just like nothing is coming, nothing is working. Everything I do is just turns into this pile of shit.

(34:28)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:29)
And then I know if I push like people say, you have to push through. No, stop that. Don't walk away. Step aside. Take a break, go do something completely different. Go and kill something in Valhalla, I need to step away from whatever I'm doing, because I know if I try to both these things, it'll take twice as long. The end result will be something I will hate. So it's best to just step away, come back to it with fresh eyes and do it again. And I'll do it in an hour where it would have cost me, like five or 6 hours when I would do it with that hate and that negative energy.

Speaker 2 (35:25)
So yeah, probably that's what I've learned over the many years of my life.

Speaker 1 (35:33)
We are wizard and old now. Yeah, so wizard and old. But one thing I wanted to bring up is what you just said is awesome and amazing. But if you're listening to the show, so this is Iris saying, listen to your body, take breaks and sometimes need to walk away. We just did an interview with Lois, who goes as lowish online. So I mean, you and you've worked with big clients, you have big social media followings. You're making awesome, really high tiered art. And she said almost the exact same thing that you said.

Speaker 1 (36:07)
So I think that there's a lot of wisdom in remembering that sometimes just pushing through is not actually the best thing to do all the time. And both of you said, listen to your body. Both of you have said, check in on your energy levels. I don't know. This is an important thing for me because I neglect these things all the time. And I keep hearing over and over from these people that I really admire their art from. And they're like, yeah, maybe you should pay attention to how you're doing before you're making art.

Speaker 3 (36:36)
Best advice Saradi has ever gotten over and over and over again.

Speaker 1 (36:40)
Right? Exactly.

Speaker 2 (36:42)
It's difficult to put in practice because something in your mind is telling you, no, you have to push through. And I think that's something our society puts on our shoulders. And it's very difficult to brush aside all that you've been throughout the years and to just listen to what you feel works for you.

Speaker 3 (37:08)
It all started when we got demonized for taking sick days in elementary school attendance. It all goes back to that.

Speaker 2 (37:16)
Well, that's not something in the Netherlands, so I definitely think that's probably a USA thing. Yeah. Not sure. But sick is sick. You have to rest up, heal up and recharge. It's like a battery. If your battery is empty and you put it on the charger for five minutes and use it again, you're not going to go far with that freaking battery. If you wait a couple of hours, it'll be fully recharged and you can go far. Why do we do this to our bodies and to our minds?

Speaker 2 (37:56)
It just makes absolutely no sense. And all for a hustle culture for the fear of missing out. And it's just if you miss out on one thing, something else will turn out.

Speaker 1 (38:12)
I'm going to need to listen to this on your.

Speaker 2 (38:17)
You have to do this before your 25th birthday. You have to do this before your 30th. I mean, people live a freaking long time these days. Usually. Hopefully, I plan to be a very old lady.

Speaker 3 (38:35)
Oh, yes. Crazy old art, ladies, for sure.

Speaker 2 (38:38)
Please have another 60 years of activity. I'm 42 now, so I planned on being an artist for a very, very long time. So why in a rush? Why? I mean, you have one body that arm you're using to draw and to paint. That's the only arm you're going to get. You'll have to learn how to use your left arm or your right arm or your mouth or your feet. Whatever. But no job is worth killing yourself over or hurting yourself over whatever. No fucking job ever worth that much.

Speaker 1 (39:26)
That is just the best advice ever. I need to just keep listening to it over and over and over again. This is a lesson that will continue to beat you with until I can do it. Yeah, but talking about maintaining your body. Do you do anything like, do you do stretches? I don't do anything like stretches or do you go hiking or yoga or anything like that?

Speaker 2 (39:56)
I have some physical problems. When I was eleven years old, I had an accident and I ended up being in a wheelchair and I wasn't in a wheelchair until my 16th year with no real. How do you call that future of ever walking again? But I beat the odds. But the disease I had back then is still something that's looming over me. So I am basically in pain all the time every day.

Speaker 1 (40:36)
Wow.

Speaker 2 (40:37)
So that means if there is any degree of painfulness, you learn to live with it, and at least I'm walking there's that. But it does mean I'm not really capable of doing lot of exercising because it's very painful for me. But I have a personal trainer, so I do some training to keep everything going to keep my muscles in my shoulders. Good. I go to massages, I get massages things to just people go to the head dresser. Why wouldn't you go to a physiotherapy and get a massage?

Speaker 1 (41:28)
I love getting massages.

Speaker 2 (41:33)
Get those muscles in your back and your shoulders taken care of. Get those knots out because this is our livelihood. That arm you're using needs to be in a tough condition, so whatever I can do within the limits, I have deal. And I bought this Oculus Quest thing in 2020 when the pandemic hit because I wanted to go and use it to go on holiday with just go to Scotland with Google Maps.

Speaker 3 (42:06)
There you go.

Speaker 1 (42:08)
That's great.

Speaker 3 (42:08)
It's good for your mental health. You can go on vacation right from your living room.

Speaker 2 (42:13)
That's why I did. But there's some really great apps on there. Boxing and stuff like that. And I did test. I did test going to a gym because it's just not for me and I need help and guidance, because if I make a mistake and rip something or something, there's a potential, really big problem for me and don't want to take too many risks. But things like that doing a boxing game or that beat Saber stuff. I love it. I'm competitive in these games. I want to win.

Speaker 2 (42:54)
So I'm doing it and I'm out of breath afterwards and I'm sweating and I'm like, yes, I worked out, so I celebrate those little victories. I will never be able to run a marathon or whatever, and I don't need to. But I stay in a reasonable shape within the limits. I have perfect and what I find interesting and fun because I've tried to go into the gym. But when this trainer came up to me and said, oh, you're having fun. Oh, this is so good. Oh, the fuck away.

Speaker 1 (43:39)
I am not having fun.

Speaker 2 (43:45)
This is not fun. I know I'll be having muscle aches for three days afterwards. Do I look like I'm having fun? I could be drawing right now. It's fun.

Speaker 1 (44:00)
I love how honest you are about this. It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (44:05)
But I know that that's how my brain works when I have to do these things that I do not want to do, I find things that I really like, and I like playing beat Saber on the Oculus and it works, and I'm active or I go out for a walk. Simple things.

Speaker 3 (44:28)
Like finding joy and physical activity is a whole topic we're going to cover at some point for sure.

Speaker 1 (44:36)
It's really important if you hate the exercise you're doing, there's kind of no point because you're not going to continue doing it. And it's not fun. And you should like, whatever you're doing yourself. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (44:53)
You have no energy for that. I'm too old for that shit.

Speaker 1 (44:58)
That is very fair.

Speaker 2 (45:03)
Let's see.

Speaker 1 (45:04)
I'm looking at the question. Oh, one of the ones I wanted to address, which is like a complete 180 from what we were just talking about before we forget. So if someone wanted to know about how you found your fine art publisher, and I wanted to get that question in before I forgot about it because it's not like a separate list for me.

Speaker 2 (45:24)
Yeah, well, the publisher that published my favorite book was somebody I already worked with before, so I worked with them when they had a different publisher. Well, I'm telling this all wrong. I worked for a publisher that published Inuit stories, and I did illustrations, and I built up a really good relationship with them. And when I did my Fairies of the Fourth Lines book that was a really big success on Kickstarter, and I basically used to book. I wanted to republish or reprint it, but I didn't want to do another couple of thousand shipments myself because I'm not a I did those 2500 books in two months.

Speaker 2 (46:24)
I did all the packaging. I sketched to have 100 sketches in 700 freaking books.

Speaker 1 (46:30)
Goodness, I heard about that.

Speaker 2 (46:33)
Don't be like me.

Speaker 1 (46:35)
There are other options.

Speaker 3 (46:38)
It's like, oh, my Kickstarter was so successful. Oh, my God, my Kickstarter was so successful.

Speaker 2 (46:42)
Yeah, that was in a space of just seconds the realization. But anyway, I just started to send out books and asking people and publishers if they'd be interested. And I had a couple of interests from bigger publishers, but they didn't feel like a good fit there was. They wanted to change certain things. And I wanted to keep the book, as is the choice of paper, everything. And the publisher I went with was the publisher I knew beforehand, and they actually started a new publishing house for books like mine.

Speaker 2 (47:25)
And then I brought in a couple of other office books. I really loved and thought like, hey, you should check this out. It's fun to see those people being published as well. My whole thing was, yes, they're a small publisher, but they understand what I want to do with the book, understand the story, they understand how important the feel of the book is, and they're not in it for the games because it's quite expensive to print because of paper finishing everything chose a smaller publisher because they understood and they respected the end product, the book.

Speaker 2 (48:13)
And it wasn't about how can we cash as much money that's little maximum maximize profits. That's not what I'm about. That's never what I'm about. I want to pay my bills. Obviously, in the end, I want quality. If people pay the dollars for a book or however much it is, I want them to have a book that's not falling apart after two weeks or something that will last them forever and will be loved and maybe hand it down to others in the generations. And for me, that's important.

Speaker 2 (49:03)
And that's how I actually came by my publisher. I knew them. It was a relationship I had built on years ago, and I just asked that's it. I ask, I love how you do that.

Speaker 1 (49:17)
Because that's the second time you've mentioned it, because you mentioned that you asked Brian to do your intro, and then you asked your publisher to publish your book. And here I am sitting and thinking like people are finding you. And what you're saying is you're going out and asking people to do the things that you would like to do.

Speaker 2 (49:39)
I did ask if I could do magic cards. I was last they found me, which is wonderful. Now I'm asking them to send me more cards, and I want to do more cards.

(49:51)
Guys.

Speaker 2 (49:52)
Yes, it's fun, but, yeah, I've been asked to do the Crystal Beach here. I've been asked to do the labyrinth, but it all comes down to the ferries. Without the ferries, I wouldn't have done any of the stuff I'm doing now.

Speaker 1 (50:10)
So this is another do your personal projects that you love and people are going to start finding you.

Speaker 2 (50:20)
If you don't want to draw spaceships, don't put spaceships in your portfolio. You're sitting. It's the same as if your hand in sketches for approval, and you give them five options. They'll always go for the option you didn't want to put in.

Speaker 3 (50:41)
Never put anything in there. You don't want to.

Speaker 1 (50:44)
That's so true. That's 100% true. It's happened to me every time.

Speaker 3 (50:49)
Sorry. You need to make monster spaceships. There you go. That's the new idea for you.

Speaker 1 (50:54)
Monster spaceships. You know what the funny thing is? I have no interest in spaceships, but I have interest in, like, cyborgs. So I was like, I kind of do want to do some studies of, like, mechanical stuff so I can start integrating in organic elements into organic elements. But as far as to publishers.

Speaker 3 (51:12)
Unless you really want to do it as far as vehicles go.

Speaker 1 (51:15)
No, I don't want to do any vehicles.

Speaker 3 (51:19)
So everyone needs to follow their passion.

Speaker 1 (51:22)
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:23)
Stop chasing the Lake machine for sure.

Speaker 1 (51:26)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:26)
I mean, take away that expectation, take away that you'll never impress everybody. And all those people are always comparing themselves to others. And the only one you have to compare yourself to is the person you were yesterday. And the next speech you're going to create is going to be better than the previous one and so on and so forth. And you're never done learning. Because if you stop learning as an artist, then pretty much you're done as an artist for me, think.

Speaker 1 (52:11)
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (52:12)
Process and the creation and the learning. That's what makes an artist. I think it's not the technique or the perfect image because action is boring. Freaking boring.

Speaker 1 (52:25)
Action is boring. You were bringing up some good things, though. Do you have dedicated time that you do studies? Do you do like drawing from life or anatomy studies or anything like that? Because it seems like you have this massive visual mental library. I've seen you put out sketches, and I'm like, I know that you kind of know how faces look like in your head. So do you regularly study, or is it just like, accumulation of doing so many sketches that now you can just kind of freely sketch?

Speaker 2 (53:07)
Not sure if it's really stuttering, but if I see a picture that I really like, and I'll just use that as reference, loose reference to try and figure out how it works. And it's just in my sketching phase. So I think sketching for me is studying. So it's idea generation, but also figuring how a horse actually works.

Speaker 1 (53:39)
Oh, my horse.

Speaker 2 (53:42)
So these things are I never really set aside time for learning as much. I should probably do that. And I want to. There's a couple of things I really want to learn, but I'd be on certain things. Like, man, I'll be on a tree kick or something. I'll be like, I want to draw trees and I'll just start drawing trees. And that's what I'll do for a week.

Speaker 3 (54:15)
We all driven by a tree or walked by a tree and been like, I want to draw that.

Speaker 1 (54:19)
That's so cool. Yeah. Some trees are really cool looking.

Speaker 2 (54:24)
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:27)
Area.

Speaker 1 (54:28)
That's so cool.

Speaker 2 (54:34)
I suck at studying. I just pick up some material and just. Okay, well, I've never worked with oil, so let's do this. Although for oils, I did go and take a course, a beginner's course at an atollae and just learn the basics. Oils are daunting. And it was so freaking fun to be a beginner and just do this. And now I'm just. Okay, well, what's the worst that can happen? I'm not licking my brushes. I'm not using the tube in my mouth, so I'll be okay if I want to learn something.

Speaker 2 (55:19)
I'll just go out and do it or figure it out. Buy a course. I'm still doing courses on Schoolism, for instance, or I download by some of the photo reference packs Howard Lyon puts out. They're amazing.

Speaker 1 (55:41)
Oh, that's a good thing that you just brought up. You still have a class that people can take on Schoolism, right?

Speaker 2 (55:47)
Yeah. Well, it's not really as fast, because, like I said, I myself am really bad at following classes. I just don't like the structure of that, but I have a ferry workout, which is basically I supply, I think, 30 or 31 sketches, so you don't have to worry about coming up with a ferry. And basically you can paint along with me. And you can do that digitally, in oils, in pastels, whatever you like. And it's just about having fun in the process of creating and seeing how the paint reacts.

Speaker 2 (56:31)
I'm using watercolors, obviously. And I talk about my process and what I'm doing and what is going through my mind as I'm working sometimes that's a lot. Sometimes there's nothing. It's home Schoolism. It's fairy workout.

Speaker 1 (56:51)
That sounds awesome.

(56:52)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:53)
I'm so glad that we brought that up because I was like, oh, that was really cool. And then I forgot all about it. Here's another question. What do you do on your days off, like, on your weekends or how do you recharge?

Speaker 2 (57:09)
Yeah. I'm not sure if I take enough days off, like, last year was really insane. I didn't take enough days off, but I tried to keep my weekends free, but I tend to just still create, because for me, sculpting is my hobby. Granted, I still make resin costs and sell the resin pass online. But for me, that whole process of creation of a sculpt is just my relaxation. That's my meditation. People ask me if I could video the process of the sculpting, and I'm like, yeah, no, that means I have to sit behind my desk.

Speaker 3 (57:54)
It's my time.

Speaker 2 (57:55)
Yeah, it's my time. So I don't do that. And I won't do that because that's my hobby.

Speaker 3 (58:03)
This is the biggest reason I stopped streaming, because when I'm working right now, my current workflow, the stuff I'm doing right now is stuff that I enjoy that I'm doing for me, which is literally the coolest thing that can happen to an artist.

Speaker 2 (58:19)
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:19)
And I don't need or want to share that right now.

Speaker 2 (58:24)
Want to share. But it's like I don't want to put in energy and feel obligated to create something that is to perform. I'm not a monkey. I'm not in the circus. I'm not going to perform every single time. And, for instance, the agreement I posted online that took a year, and I would just have that scope laying in my studio, and whenever I felt like it, I would noodle on it, then put it for a couple of months and go back to it. So there's no deadline.

Speaker 2 (59:01)
That's just me having fun with clay, and it ends up being something I'm going to create and sell. But that's never the end goal. The end goal is just the creation of that thing. And sketching is still my past time. That's still my meditation. Everything I do for the ferries is all pretty much my downtime, my free time, my fun time. So I don't really have that distinction as much as most people, perhaps for client work. I do not touch client work in my vacations or in my weekend or whatever.

Speaker 2 (59:45)
That's strictly nine to five.

Speaker 1 (59:49)
For instance, right now, that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2 (59:54)
But everything that I love to do, it's not saying that I don't love doing client work, but yeah, for me, sketching and painting and figuring out oils or whatever, that's just my homie.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11)
All coming back to making sure that a lot of times artists will joke and they'll say, oh, yeah, my art is my work, and my hobby is also art, but it's a matter of like, it's a different art. It is different art when you're doing it for yourself, even if it's the same medium. When I'm working on client work, it's totally different mindset than when I'm making whatever I want, even if it's the same medium.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34)
Oh, yeah, definitely. Absolutely. There's whole different rules for me, even if I feel like it, I'll play a video game and I don't really have much time to do it. But I could say take off a couple of days and say, Well, I'm going to play assessments. Great for the next couple of days. Just have fun with it. And I do not feel guilty for doing that because I know in the end, when I get back to work, I'll be better than ever.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09)
Yes. This is another thing I need to internalize. So that is getting pretty close to the ends of our questions. But one thing that I would kind of like to know is if you had. I mean, this one is so typical. If there's, like, one thing that I missed that you want the art community to know, do you have anything like that? Is there one thing that you're like people need to know this about art or art life or anything like that?

Speaker 2 (01:01:47)
I honestly think that I've said most of what I seem I find important.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55)
That's good.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57)
Yeah. I mean, for me, how I feel, you only have a certain amount of energy. And I always say it has to be fun. Obviously, it's not always fun. There's not so fun things, but for me, the one thing that I enjoy most is the process of creating and that's my focus, the process of creating, the act of creating and not so much. I'm not so much bothered by the end result. And I think that's we're so focused these days on the end result and what other people will say about the end result.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55)
But the act of getting there for me is more important. It's almost like when you travel, you can focus on the destination, and that's when your vacation actually starts when you're laying down on that structure at the beach. But also the way to a destination is fun. Could be fun with all the quirky things that could happen. Or if you're doing a city trip, that's how I travel. Mostly. It's just how I go to Rome and then have a rough idea of what I want to do that day, and I'll just start wondering and I run into the most amazing experiences.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47)
And that's how I approach my art as well. We'll see where it goes. There's no expectations. We'll see what happens if nothing happens. Fine. If something happens wonderful. And usually because I've taken that pressure off, there's a lot happening.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08)
That's awesome. I'm so glad I just asked you that question. That was an amazing answer.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14)
Yeah. I think that we expect so much of ourselves or think that there's so much expected of us, and it puts so much pressure on us, which then makes you practically incapable of doing anything. It just doesn't make sense. It really doesn't. I don't know. Probably made it very privileged. I don't know. I figured out how much I need to make to pay my bills. I'm very fortunate to be living in the Netherlands. We have a health care system. We have certain things that Europe. I'll be in Belgium in five minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11)
If I leave home now, I can travel in 3 hours. I can be in Paris in 4 hours. I'll be in London. So I have so many things very close to me myself. So. Yeah, I know there's a lot of privilege in that, and I'm very grateful for it. I just take the day as it comes. It's probably something that's leftover from being in a wheelchair as a kid because basically my entire youth was taken away.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46)
Yeah, that's a really good point. And I don't want to speak for you, but it seems like you're not like, I don't know. Yeah, you do. You seem like you're really good at rolling with it, like rolling with the punches or just like taking the day as it comes.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04)
Yeah. Well, I'm full of analogies these days. It comes with the turf. It comes with the age, but it's easier to just lay back in the stream and just let yourself be carried away and just adjust course here and there rather than fight against the stream and just try and swim against it. I mean, you'll be very tired. Muscle ache everywhere and not going anywhere. But when you just lay back and just adjust course whenever you'll get there, eventually, it makes it easier. I'm not sure if I explain it as well as I should.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00)
I mean, I've done 6 hours of text papers already today.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09)
As the person who's swimming up the stream often, I think that that was a wonderful analogy that explained it very well.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22)
I get asked about my journey and how did I get where I am right now? And people expect a clear answer or a cookie cut answer. But there isn't one. My entire career is built upon failures and mistakes and wrong turns and whatever and me reacting to all those things and not giving up. So basically, it's like going into a labyrinth, you hit a brick wall. What do you do? You can do two things. You can butt your head against that wall trying to get through it, stand there and just look at the wall and be like, oh, well, yeah, there shouldn't be a wall here, or you can turn around and retrace your steps and take another road.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09)
And if you do the third thing, you'll eventually get to the middle of the labyrinth. But sometimes it's an easy road, and sometimes it's a really difficult road.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23)
We've been joking. We've been joking with a lot of artists that the key to success is to stubbornly continue.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29)
Yeah, it is. I think that's different. It's not really talent or whatever because, yes, brilliant painters or brilliant artists are amazing, and they're perfect. But if you do not have the grit or the passion or the perseverance, because it's not easy. Let's face it, it's not always easy. And I think the difference is when people persevere with whatever they've gone through. And again, good dose of privilege comes along because some people have a lot of hurdles to take in the end, I hope that those who persevere and those who never give up on their drugs will eventually make it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20)
That's what I need to believe in.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25)
That's awesome. I love all of this. This is really good. I think unless we have anything else to do, that's an awesome place to end this, because that's like a perfect way to wrap this up. Do you have anything else to mention?

Speaker 2 (01:09:46)
My apologies for rambling?

Speaker 1 (01:09:48)
No, that was amazing. And I don't even think that was rambling, but I'm out of questions, and I think that was a brilliant way to take away something.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06)
We're going to talk to a lot of amazing, professional admired artists this year, and I think we're going to hear the same story, and it's great because the more we hear it, the more maybe it'll sink in.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19)
Yeah, well, it's important to talk about all these failures and fuck ups and stuff like that because there's some kind of myth going around that people who made it quotation marks made it. Don't fuck up. That's just bullshit. I still make mistakes, and I will continue to do so because I'm going to be a better artist tomorrow than I am today. And so on and so forth until the day I die, and that's every single one everyone is going to go through that. And that's just a reality.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54)
And if you're not willing to accept that you're not perfect and your art will not be perfect. And that's okay. If you're not willing to accept that I was like, that's going to be a really tough thing to do.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13)
Definitely. That is so true. All right. So I think that's a wrap, right? Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Iris, for talking to us today. That was amazing. Everything you said. I love listening to you. You just mentioned that you hope it helps someone I know. At least it just helps me. So that's awesome. Thank you so much. We'll have more content on the first and 15th of every month, and thank you so much for listening to mindbodyartist.Com. And we'll talk to you later. Hope you make good art today.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52)
Bye.

❤️
Sarah, Sarah, and Iris


Discussed by Sarah Dahlinger, Sarah Forde, Lois van Baarle aka Loish