Interview with Loish
^^ We cover so much in our discussion with Lois van Baarle aka Loish. We talk about work and fitness routines, managing social media, how to handle bad art days, where to find inspiration, and SO MUCH MORE. Enjoy!
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The worksheet is inspired by our conversation with Loish. She mentions it a few times so be sure to listen to the full interview for all the good tips.
Hi friends, Sarah D here.
This is the transcribed conversation made via HappyScribe.
We know some people like to read more than listen and vice versa, and we will always try to provide both when we can. HappyScribe is roughly 80% accurate.
Also a huge thanks to our guest: Lois van Baarle aka Loish. Check out her art!
Website • Instagram • Patreon
Happy Art Making!
-Sarah
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Interview with Loish Transcribed Conversation
Speaker 1
Hey, everyone, this is Sarah and Sarah, and joining us today is Loish, and we are going to be doing a podcast for https://www.mindbodyartist.com/, a podcast that address the mental and physical games of being an artist. So like I said, we're joined today by Loess, who goes by Loish online. And thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. And if you don't mind, could you just tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do and where people can find your stuff online?
Speaker 2
Yeah, thanks for having me. So I'm Lois, otherwise known as Loish, like you said. And I make digital art mostly. So I create digital paintings on the computer. And, you know, I spend a lot of time behind the computer, very active on social media as well. And you can find my work on https://loish.net/ or on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/loisvb
Speaker 1
So thank you so I mean, a lot of the people who are listening to this already know you and are really familiar with your work. But one of the things that we focus on in this podcast is what you do mentally and physically. So you're able to produce such high quality work that you're known for. And so we asked a couple of fans of the show to ask questions. And so we just kind of kind of run through them and see what comes out and hopefully it'll be helpful to people.
Speaker 1
So one of the first things that people wanted to know was what is sort of a typical day for you and do you have any routines that you like to stick to?
Speaker 2
All right, so I do have a routine that I've been using for like let's say about a year now, very like strictly, but that's really been like kind of the routine that got me through the pandemic, basically. So it's something that, like, you know, is right now is how I work. But I'm not sure if I'm going to keep working that way, moving forward, because I don't know how necessary it is to keep sticking. I'm feeling like sort of stuck in this routine as well.
Speaker 2
So I'll say that. But with the slight disclaimer that I'm thinking about changing it up, but on an average day for me is usually, you know, getting up. You know, I wake up and I exercise first thing because that puts me in a better mindset usually for the day. And, you know, it's something that I like to get over with first thing in the morning. So I exercise and then I sort of like to get ready for the day.
Speaker 2
And then I have like the first chunk of my workday, which is in the morning, where I kind of go through emails and do like tasks like like write up my social media posts and stuff, and then I'll have like a big break in the middle for, like eating and prepping, like because the first half of my day is at home and then I'll go to like an office space that I rent away from my house in the afternoon.
Speaker 3
So I kind of bike out there and then spend like three to four hours, sort of like intensively drawing or doing some kind of creative work. And then I'll finish around like six or seven p.m. and then I go home and I take the evening off. So that's like sort of my workday structure at the moment.
Speaker 1
I'm just saying that's awesome. What time do you say you usually get up in the morning?
Speaker 2
Usually around like eight, sometimes 7:00 a.m.. Yeah.
Speaker 4
Cool. So my question was going to be, what about that do you think is going to be changing like you're saying you're thinking about it might shift and tell us a little about that.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I've been like before, you know, before I started doing this routine, I was a little bit more loose with my schedule because I would like maybe some days sleep and a little more or some days I would start work a little later. And I usually like didn't do like tasks like email in the morning. I would like to go to my office is just like I have one longer workday where that sort of stuff was peppered throughout my other tasks and it was much more like easy and loose.
Speaker 2
But that didn't work for me during the pandemic. So when like covid head and I realized, like, I really needed better structure to get through my time, I, I just got more strict towards myself and it really helped me through. But now I'm noticing that, like, I feel, you know, like I, I feel like to obsessive about keeping to that routine and there's no, like, sort of spontaneity there anymore. And there's no room to kind of go with the flow.
Speaker 2
Like, if I don't keep up with this schedule, I feel like I'm messing up already, you know, and that's something that like it shows that this whole structure for me was not like long term sustainable. It was just helpful for this phase of my life, basically. So I'm thinking about loosening it up a bit more and having more like, you know, days where I just where I'm not, like, strict about what time I start on stuff or I just kind of like leave some room to figure out what I feel like doing, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 2
Hmm.
Speaker 1
Now, I think that's awesome, and I also think that it's really cool that you recognize that a change had happen in your life and in the world, and then you needed to adapt to that change to still get like what you wanted to get done. But then now that, like, things are starting to open up a little bit and hopefully they don't close down again. But who knows? Yeah, you're you're recognizing that, hey, maybe I can bring back that flexibility that I used to enjoy before this pandemic happened.
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. Like, I just noticed that, like having a really strict routine. I usually find it really helpful initially, but if I keep it up for too long, I feel trapped in it. And I think where, you know, throughout the pandemic, I've been strict about like when I feel trapped in it to just like stick to it anyways because it really like having too much time to think was not good during this pandemic. But now that it's kind of like, you know, changing, I feel like I do need that time to think and the room to think more than I did before and that it's not as much of a bad thing.
Speaker 2
So it's something that I'm sensing, but I'm sort of in between stages right now. I'm trying to figure out what works best for me.
Speaker 1
That's awesome. I also like how you're saying I so many people probably think like, oh yeah, you know, someone who has such a prestigious art career is like must be super strict and never change all the time. And you're saying like, oh, well, I adapt to my environment. I adapt to the times. And I think that's really awesome for people to know is like you can't just be like rooted in one place. You kind of have to go with the flow a little bit and do what you need to do at the time.
Speaker 2
Yeah, and I think artists are always changing, you know, like everybody's always changing. But when you, like, do creative work, then your interests shift. And if you have, like, the space, you know, to kind of pursue what you want creatively, you'll find that you're always changing and shifting in your interests and what you want to do and what's sort of serving you creatively. So I think that's more important than than ever for artists to kind of like tap into that part of themselves.
Speaker 2
That's saying like, well, maybe now I need to take it easy or maybe now I need to have more room to explore and not be too strict on myself. But I'm the kind of person who is very strict on myself. So I always need to, like, kind of tone that down a bit.
Speaker 1
I feel you right there on the same way. I'm way too strict on myself.
Speaker 4
I'm the opposite. I need to enforce strict limits occasionally when things need to get done.
Speaker 1
I also you already mentioned that you wake up and you work out. So could you just kind of describe a little bit what your workout looks like? Like how long is it? Or like do you run, do you lift weights? Do you dance?
Speaker 2
Like I alternate between running and doing like, you know, sort of strength workouts, which I found has been like, amazing because I've been running for a long time on and off. But like, my running just feels so much better when I also have like when I'm stronger in general. So I do a lot of, like, workouts that are like so I alternate, I do about two workouts a week and then like three running sessions a week usually, usually about half an hour each.
Speaker 2
So not too much longer than that. It feels overwhelming. So I need to keep it short.
Speaker 1
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, yeah, yeah, and that's also what you wake up and kind of like get the blood going.
Speaker 2
Yeah, that helps me a lot because I also like if I don't work out in the morning, I just won't do it later in the day. I'll just think of excuses not to do it, you know. So I just have to get it over with right away.
Speaker 1
Yeah. You get like more and more tired as the day goes. Day goes on.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And errands get in the way, you know.
Speaker 4
So even if your little thing, even if your routine changes, do you think you'll keep that wake up workout.
Speaker 2
Oh for sure. Yeah. That's something I've been doing for a long time. It's just I've been more like sticking to it a little more strictly because of just the mental health benefits for the most part. And I've really like with exercise. It's like the more I do it, the more I'm like amazed by the benefits. Like, I just can't believe how much better I feel, you know? And then I feel like whenever I don't exercise, I just I feel like I miss that feeling strong.
Speaker 2
So I'll always go back to it.
Speaker 1
I know I feel the exact same way when I work out, I just feel better in general and even like even like when you're standing up from the desk, look after you're doing an art session, you feel like less creeky or less. You're less or you just like if you're well, exercise, you just feel like your body just feels nice.
Speaker 2
Exactly. That's exactly it. Yeah. And you just never regret it. Like, I never regret it. I always and when I don't exercise I usually do regret it. So I just try to like, you know, stay disciplined on the workout routine.
Speaker 4
I reward myself with stickers.
Speaker 2
That's a good one. I like that. Don't break the door. Break the chain.
Speaker 4
That's also awesome. Visual reminder for me is, you know, since the last time we recorded a session, I've officially been diagnosed with ADHD. So having that visual thing that says this is a thing you're supposed to do, did you do it is really helpful for me. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2
Such a good trick.
Speaker 1
If anyone is interested, that technique is called Don't Break the chain. And it's super helpful for a lot of people. Oh, but let's see. So. Oh right. We wanted to kind of segue a little bit. So Lois, you have a big social media following and we were wondering if there are how you handle it. Like, are there any challenges to managing such a large social media presence? Do you have specific times that you like are on and or off or anything around that aspect of the job?
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's a lot of work to manage social media more and more as well with time like the algorithms used to be a little bit more forgiving, but they get harder all the time. So with social media, I think for me what helps is to just plan my posts out ahead of time. And I just have like a time slot every Friday to sort of, you know, prep my social media post for the week after. And that makes it a lot easier for me, because then I just, you know, post what I wrote earlier and it's just kind of automatic.
Speaker 2
So having kind of like a schedule and a structure for that makes it a lot easier. And honestly, like I do kind of check my messages. I do like I am kind of reading what people like the response that I get in in like the half hour after posting. But after that I just let it go. Like, I just move on because I think if you're, like, too connected to that many people, you're just like overstimulated.
Speaker 2
Right. You need to, like, disconnect again, kind of get back down to earth. So. So I try to set clear limits there and have like a steady schedule.
Speaker 4
Do you do like organic posting on the days that you're going to post, like he write it all up ahead of time and then do you go manually post on those days or do you do like scheduling? So the whole thing is just set up and then you go check in as they come up.
Speaker 2
I manually post on the day because I'm like on these platforms anyway, kind of seeing, you know, what the response is. So I just I feel like that's more natural. And sometimes I'll change the text a little bit depending on like you just adjusted to my mood at that moment. It always feels better to just like it because otherwise when I schedule it, it usually goes up and then I don't even remember that it went up. And then I check the next day and I'm like, oh, a scheduled post went online.
Speaker 2
Oh gosh. You know, I mean, it's I miss that those moments of interaction, you know, so I prefer to just type it in or copy paste it in by hand.
Speaker 4
And that's a morning thing for you.
Speaker 2
Evening thing for me because yeah, like around this time most of my followers are online because my European followers are like checking their phones in the evening and my American followers are like kind of waking up or like it's boring for them. So it's like a good overlap with the largest groups that I that follow me.
Speaker 1
That's a great idea. Do you have anything like I've heard people say, oh, I post a work in progress on Monday, I post the finished work on Tuesday. I post, like, a funny meme or something on Wednesday. Do you do anything like that? Do you have like a system like that at all, or is it just kind of like, oh, this is like a work in progress? I think it's cool. I'll post it today.
Speaker 2
I don't I did like make a system like that, but I just don't stick to it at all, like I usually just kind of see, you know, there are certain things like around this time of the month, I'll always post something to promote my patron tutorials because it's like early in the month or like the first half of the month and like the patroness per month. So when people sign up on the last day, they like lose their membership like the next day.
Speaker 2
It's really weird system. So I have a certain time of the month that I post like certain promotional content. But for the rest, I just kind of like I don't know, I just try to see what what I feel like posting or what I think that my social media account needs. You know, like if I'm if I'm if I've got too much of the same kind of stuff, I'll see if I can break that up with some other type of content.
Speaker 2
So just take it week by week.
Speaker 4
Which which platforms are you most active on currently?
Speaker 2
I'd say the most active Instagram and then Facebook, and I'm also posting on Twitter and Tumblr, but I'm not very active there, I just kind of post and run. So, yeah, those those platforms are the most active.
Speaker 4
It's definitely hard to keep up with all of them because like, you know, there's platforms that we naturally sort of gravitate towards. And for me, it's it's Twitter mainly. And then there's other platforms where it's like such an effort.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And and I think you have to get into it to like I think you have to use it a lot to kind of get into the flow of how a platform works. And you can't really do that with a bunch of different platforms. It's usually like one at a time that you're willing to invest that much energy. Right.
Speaker 4
In the pandemic. I started talking and I'm definitely like I'm trying very hard to keep it real casual and not try to, like, overcommit to it being like a responsibility. But yeah, like you said, until you're until you're using the platform regularly, it's like getting to know how it works, you know, how to how to get your post seeing like what level of interaction you need to have with other people to like start building that community. Yeah, it's challenging.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's really like it requires so much getting into it. And then once you are in it, it becomes almost like an obsession, you know. So it's like it's really hard to get that nice balance between like what a healthy relationship with social media. It's like it's really difficult.
Speaker 4
Yes. Being able to design of it. Yeah. Like being able to check out like being able to like make a post, read, read a couple of replies and then step away from it can be really challenging.
Speaker 2
Yeah. For sure. It's like designed to suck you in, you know, and get you addicted to talk to literally the worst for that. For the record.
Speaker 2
Yes. I've heard, I've heard the stories actually.
Speaker 1
That's a great point is do you have any tips for how to disengage? Because you said, like, you make a post, you wait about half an hour and then you disengage from the social media? I actually have a huge trouble with that. So what do you do to, like, turn that off?
Speaker 2
Yeah. I just tell myself to stop caring, I guess, okay, that's it, that's all you get. Like, this place is dead to me, like the cookie tray away.
Speaker 2
But that's pretty much it because it's like I've been in situations where I am to online, essentially, you know, I started out on DeviantArt. I was on DeviantArt all the time. Yeah. And I mean, during the pandemic, like Twitter got a little bit addictive at certain stage as well. And I've been like in that rabbit hole and just felt, you know, how toxic it can be. So I, I really just tell myself, like, I have to disengage, otherwise I'm going to feel the way I did that one time.
Speaker 4
You turn and turn off notifications like do you do you make your phone, you'll just turn off like dude just like do you mute the app or like what's the technique that you used to be?
Speaker 2
Like, I just turn off all the notifications because I log in, you know, quite regularly so I can see if there's, you know, direct messages from people that I follow, for example. So I'm not worried about missing anything. And yeah. No notifications whatsoever. Yeah. Because otherwise, like, you know, otherwise totally random people that I might not know that will have access to me while I'm working or busy with my own life, you know.
Speaker 2
So essentially the only messages I get on my phone are like, you know, through messaging apps with, you know, my family and friends.
Speaker 4
Yeah. That's something that strict boundaries there.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Because otherwise, I mean, you know, I'm very like available to, you know, my followers at certain times. And I feel like that should be enough. It shouldn't have to be all the time.
Speaker 1
Oh wow. I really love that though. I really love that because I kind of have I feel the pressure to be around all the time. Like someone asked a question and I feel the pressure to have to immediately respond. But I love the the setting the boundary of growth from this time to this time. You know, I'm around and I'm not and then I'm around again later. I really like giving yourself permission to do that.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think that that's also just like a fair deal for everyone, right, because everybody gets their chance. I also have a patron, so and my patrons, they matter so much to me and they have all they have questions and they have like things they want to know. And I'm there, you know, every morning checking those messages and answering the questions. But when I'm done doing that, I need to focus on other stuff. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to make content for Patrón.
Speaker 2
Right. And so it has to stay healthy thus.
Speaker 1
So far, so fair. All right. So this is actually a really good segue into the next thing that we were wondering is like, was there ever a point in in your life that you felt like you were overworked and you pulled back from that or made a switch to not and be like because freelancers, they kind of have the whole like I'm on 24/7. Many people struggle with that. So, like, was that everything that you struggled with?
Speaker 1
And then you're like, nope, not anymore. Or is it something you still struggle with?
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's something that I struggled with a lot in the beginning of my career, so. You know, I think a lot of freelance artists go through it, right, because you go to art school or like I went to art school and there you learn, like, you know, that you have to push to the maximum to get, like, the best result that you could possibly get. And your teachers aren't telling you, like, only work reasonable hours.
Speaker 2
You know, they're pushing you in the studio all the time.
Speaker 1
Yeah. That's such a good point. It does start there. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And and those people, like, they learn, you know, art students learn when they go out into the world of, like, working as an artist that you have to push yourself to the maximum to get the best possible result. Right. So you already have kind of the wrong mindset because it's because it's not really you know, if you're a long term sustainable, it's not sustainable, but it's also just not what it is like. It's, you know, time is money, essentially.
Speaker 2
Right. So you need to get paid for the hours you put in and you have to stop looking at something in terms of like, you know, to what quality am I pushing it? And more to like, how much time do I need to get this quality and will I get paid for that time, you know? So it's a different mindset. So I think a lot of people are susceptible, especially when they're starting out like kind of push themselves too far.
Speaker 2
And I definitely did. So initially it wasn't that bad because I didn't have that much work. I was just starting out and kind of figuring out where I wanted to go. And I didn't really have huge clients either. I just had like kind of local clients who were like, you know, get me to work on a project for like maybe two weeks at a time. And then I would have nothing for a while.
Speaker 3
So I did a lot of personal work and there was kind of like the boundaries were set by the fact that I just didn't have that much work to begin with. But then came a point in my career where I suddenly had, like bigger clients. It all happened within like a month timespan that a bunch of big clients were asking me to do work for them. And, you know, one of them was asking me to do work in the evenings and weekends, which I did, because I just was so honored, you know, to work with them.
Speaker 3
And I I felt like I had to do it. And and, yeah, another client was very pushy. So they were like they had like these big sort of deadlines they were working towards. And they wanted to get, like, more out of me.
Speaker 3
And they they were the kind of client who would be like just in case, you know, if you have time, could you also do this? And then I would do that, you know, so I never said no. And then at a certain point, I was just, you know, exhausted. I was physically exhausted. I had a lot of, like, physical, like literally like had trouble holding a pen. The strength in my arm had kind of like gone away.
Speaker 3
And I was mentally exhausted and it took me took me a while to sort of like get my energy levels back after that. And that's when I realized, like, OK, you know, I was still able to work. But I, like just felt like if I keep working at this pace, I'm something's going to break, you know. So I, I slowed down a lot after that. And then I started setting really hard limits towards my clients.
Speaker 3
So I would say like, well, you know, I can only work half a day today. And initially I was very scared to do those kind of things like tell my clients no, because I thought that they would just ditch me. But they did. And they were pretty patient about it. And they like, you know, they were happy with what I could provide. So I was very lucky with that. And then, you know, after that, I just I kind of learned so I kind of learned this lesson that like big companies that pay you to do work for them, it feels like a huge honor.
Speaker 3
And it sometimes it is. But it's also just like a company that's just trying to get the maximum value for their money that they're putting into you. And they are like, you know, going to suck out your creativity for what it's worth. And they're not going to protect your boundaries or your mental health. They are just like taking what they can get because they are a company, not a person. Right. So I kind of learned after that, you know, to stop idolizing certain clients and to just set boundaries and see the value in my personal work more so that I wouldn't fall into that trap again.
Speaker 1
I think that that's amazing and like the not idolizing something that's such such good advice, because I fall into that trap, too. And what you just said is super down to earth. It's like, yeah, that's right. They're a company. They don't really care about your mental health or your carpal tunnel or or anything like that. It's like kind of up to you to be the champion of that. You have to protect that.
Speaker 2
Exactly. And they you know, they're like a business. So they're just and they move on from one thing to the next, you know, they got one project and it feels like that's the biggest project ever and so important. And then they just tossed it out and move on to the next thing. You know, so much of my art has never seen the light of day that I've made for these companies because the project, you know, changed or didn't get released.
Speaker 2
So it's like, what was I sacrificing my health for? For like just enough to disappear into a vault and then people to change to a different position within the company and to lose all the contact there, you know what I mean? It's like you're not working with a person you're working with, like just a business. And it's I think it's really important for artists to kind of also see why these businesses are approaching them because they, like these businesses, see the appeal in like, you know, unique handmade artwork.
Speaker 2
So value your own creations more than what these businesses are doing, you know, like they're coming to you because what you're doing is special. So you have to protect it and you have to, like, set those boundaries.
Speaker 4
I'm going to cry. I know, I know, I love that so much, like I need I know going to make a good clip of that and I'm just going to play it like before I take any job. That's amazing. So I guess, like, this kind of goes into like kind of the two other points is we were going to ask what your early career challenges were like, but I think you might have already addressed that unless you have anything more.
Speaker 4
And then on top of that, how do you recharge? Like at the end? Like how like after you've done a hard day's work, what do you do to make yourself feel better?
Speaker 2
So, yeah, that was my main challenge, basically setting setting those boundaries and kind of prioritizing my personal work. How I recharge, I'd say, like, you know, having that routine of keeping my evenings free is like just it helps so much. If I have a hard day and I come home and I just feel like a zombie, I can just feel the life coming back to me after, like, you know, just chilling, just just relaxing, watching some terrible television.
Speaker 2
That that is something that's something I've said quite a lot, is that for me, disconnecting and recharging means like indulging in like activities that are in no way like. Like, you know how people say, like, I watch this amazing movie, there's amazing show, and it was so incredible and it blew my mind, I like a void that I watch reality TV.
Speaker 4
Oh, trash is trash like.
Speaker 1
Absolutely no grain required to watch.
Speaker 4
Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Because there's like for me it's like really refreshing to sometimes just like not even try to curate my personal time, you know, because people are doing that a lot like especially with social media being connected 24/7, people curate like their free time as much as they do their sort of online activities. And sometimes that's really fun and I like that. But sometimes you just got to, like, do something that you wouldn't put on Instagram, you know, just just to be rebellious towards that side of yourself.
Speaker 2
At least that helps me.
Speaker 1
And yeah, I want to try that.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 2
I mean, I always find that relaxed. I think for some people it's different like but like I have a very like all encompassing relationship with my work. So I have like this ongoing conversation with my boyfriend where he says, shouldn't you get a hobby or something? And I'm like, OK, maybe. And then I end up like listing a bunch of stuff that's essentially my work, but just like slightly different, you know, and relate.
Speaker 1
That's why I have a dog. That's really the point of the dog.
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's true. I don't have a pet anymore, so I definitely need to start looking into that again. But yeah, like I just try to, you know, just just really maintain that free time and use that to reconnect with friends and just watch trash TV and take walks. And I always find myself feeling, you know, ready for work again. And sometimes I find that maybe I'm a bit too stress and it builds up over the week and then I'll slow down the week after and work less hours so that I can get back to that state where every morning I feel like it's a fresh start again.
Speaker 1
That's a really interesting marker because like I've been recently overworked because a bunch of stuff hit me at once and like, oh, I wake up tired and I don't want to do this has been a thing that I've been trying to get out of. And I think that that's super interesting how you're using that as a marker of when you're like, oh, my battery is recharged enough for the day, let's do the day.
Speaker 2
So that's yeah. I think if you're waking up like with the work on your mind and already feeling tired, then for me that would be a sign that, like I've had some kind of boundary and that the more important issue is trying to get back to like. You know, getting enough base away from whatever that work is, but then again, you know, sometimes some projects are just really big and very all encompassing and then you have to just get them done and wait until after to recover.
Speaker 2
I mean, I think that's very common, too, but you've got to be careful with it. So that doesn't drag out too long afterwards.
Speaker 1
That makes sense, it makes sense. So while you are making all the art that you're making, like how do you handle when you have a bad art day or everything you're doing is just going wrong?
Speaker 2
Um, today was actually one of those days I just couldn't get anything to work. Yeah, I just I just stick to my routine. I just have, like, a certain number of like I plan out my week on Monday morning. So I have like on Monday morning I have this thing called, like the weekly review. And I look at the last week and kind of how it went and plan out the week ahead. And then I'll plan out like my drawing sessions and sort of like what I'll be drawing and what I'll be focusing on.
Speaker 2
And, you know, if I have like one bad hour day, I just try to like. Just shrug and be like, well, tomorrow's a new day. And just think like it'll work out eventually. I don't know. I try not to think about it too much because sometimes, especially like, you know, today was one of those days where I couldn't get the art to work and look at the way that I wanted it to. It's like you can't make it work.
Speaker 3
You know, it's not going to it's not going to happen.
Speaker 4
It's like mad about it is just going to make it worse, probably.
Speaker 2
Exactly. Exactly. And the more I draw the the further away I get from getting it to work. So it's like just got to move on, you know, fresh start tomorrow. That that always helps me. I tend what what also helps me is to keep my drawing sessions short. So I have like, you know, I try to do like it's more intense, like maybe two to three hour drawing sessions where I do some sketches or do an environment, speed paint or something like that and then move on after.
Speaker 2
So so whenever something really isn't working, it tends to be limited to a fairly short session. If it's like a longer painting that takes like a really long time and that's not working, then that has a huge effect on like, you know, all the other days you'll be working on it. So keeping it short and like staying away from big projects when I'm not feeling able to draw well, that tends to keep it manageable for me.
Speaker 1
So do you in general, during your work day, do you work on multiple pieces during your workday then, or do you do short chunks of time on one piece?
Speaker 2
I usually do like a session, you know, where I'll be like, OK, I want to draw like cars today, for example, and just draw a bunch of car sketches in one session. And I tend not to be very good at taking breaks. Like I like to stay in my, you know, like in the activity that I'm in. And I find it hard to, like, step out of it and then like so. So that's why I keep those sessions short as well, because otherwise I'll forget to eat for a really long span of time, which is not good.
Speaker 2
And the drawings of the longer paintings, I'll just split that up into a bunch of sessions. So like, you know, maybe three or four like sessions of a couple hours long each to finish it, which also helps to like get back to it with fresh eyes, you know, like if I've been working on it for a couple of hours and then I look at it again the next day, I can see the mistakes that I was missing before.
Speaker 4
Or the really nice things that you did. Yeah, that, too, like, oh, that piece worked out, that piece didn't, but that piece worked out. So I think maybe you mentioned it a little bit with the cars. But where do you get your ideas and your inspirations from?
Speaker 2
Um, I have, like, an inspiration board on Pinterest that I sort of go to when I'm not out of ideas that has some reference images and art and stuff that kind of inspires me. And a lot of the time, I actually base sort of what I draw on, what I want to improve at, especially lately, because ever since I started my patron, I kind of decided, like I was going to use that time to get, like, really improve and take the time to, you know, work on the things that I felt I didn't have time for before.
Speaker 2
So usually I'm thinking like, you know, I really want to get better at, you know, drawing cars or I want to get better at, like, you know, environment speed paints. I want them to be more dynamic. And then I, I kind of decide that I want to improve at this specific area and then I will sit down and sort of work on that. So like currently, I say most of my ideas are kind of coming from that, like this desire to get better at something.
Speaker 2
And then I'll try doing it. And then if I see improvement there, that'll give me some ideas for a painting, for example. So. Yeah, it's usually sort of like it grows naturally from this desire to improve in different areas.
Speaker 4
That's how much of how much of your work currently is like personal work versus like contract stuff like what's your like ratio right now?
Speaker 2
Right now, most of my work, I'd say, like for the last couple of months, all my work has been personal because I've been splitting my time between Patreon and like my new art book. So those are both like, you know, personal art projects in an average year, you know, because I'm not always working on a book, I'd say maybe 25 percent of the time contract work and like 50 percent of the time patchin and then.
Speaker 2
The other 25 percent could be like workshops or like making tutorials and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4
So that's sort of generally worked out really well for you then, like as far as gaining independence.
Speaker 2
Yeah, definitely. It's really given me time to just do my own thing. Yeah.
Speaker 4
When did you what did you open your page and you know what year it was.
Speaker 2
Yeah, it was. It was January 2020.
Speaker 1
Oh, wow, so it's brand new, pretty much, I mean, pandemic paper, yeah, yeah, a lot of artists. He didn't know it when you opened it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2
It was right before the pandemic and it worked out perfectly. Yeah. It it worked out amazingly like poetry and kind of changed my life. I mean I it just gives me, you know, the chance to pursue what I want to pursue and kind of decide for myself, like, OK, what, what am I going to draw. Like I can literally sometimes sometimes I'm like taking a walk and I'm like I really like what I'm seeing, you know, I like these plants.
Speaker 2
I want to learn how to draw them, you know what I mean? So I can just indulge in the simplest curiosities that I have as an artist because of my patron, because otherwise I just wouldn't have time. And before the Patriot and I was kind of like whenever I did have time for personal work, I would instantly put that into like a finished painting so that I had something to post.
Speaker 4
And that's guilty about taking the time.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But also now I get to like, kind of move away from just making these paintings and also doing more studies, explorations. I think my heart is much more in that than the digital painting these days. This time of my career, I prefer to just explore with my art.
Speaker 4
Like the real art dream right there.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, it is I am kind of living a dream. Yeah. Sometimes I don't even realize it because I just, like, get caught up in my work. But it was a dream and I started it and now I'm living it. And I think about that. And I'm like, whoa, how did I get here? I'm very happy about that. Very, very grateful.
Speaker 4
I always tell I always tell people like, you know, start your Patreon, because even if you've got one or two people to start and it's like your mom and your best friend, you know, start it now anyway, because it's, you know, even if it's the simplest thing to start with and you never know how it's going to grow.
Speaker 2
I definitely agree with that. And I think if you can just keep it really simple and kind of see, you know, what comes out of it, like if nobody signs up, then, you know, you don't lose any changes. Exactly.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And you can always kind of like see what what grows out or if you have ideas for it. I think I started way too late with my patron, honestly.
Speaker 4
Oh, no, I was expecting a lot or I started in 2015, I was expecting yours to be similar, honestly.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think around that time a lot of artists were setting up patrons and they didn't. I was kind of like, you know, I didn't really know how I would make it my own. And and the big successful artist patrons of that time were like full of like they had tons of tiers to them and they were like, you know, very fancy and elaborate and very elaborate and like sending things out in the mail and giving out high as E, d and like commissions.
Speaker 2
And I remember looking at that and being like, I just don't have time for this. Like, I wish I could do that. But like, it's too time consuming. And I'm also horrible at fulfilling, like, mail orders. Like, I just I'm terrible at it. Right. So I just try to avoid that at all costs. And and now I'm like, oh, why did I think that it had to be like that? Because my patreon is really low key and it works fine.
Speaker 2
You know, it's I keep telling people it was originally designed as a glorified tip jar and there's absolutely no reason you can't keep it that way.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think that that's the way to go, even because, like, if you want to build it up to something more elaborate, you can always do that. But like, if you start simple, then, you know, you at least give you know, you don't like jump into deep because I think a lot of people started patriots and they were like, whoa, this is super overwhelming. I can't keep up, you know, and then they don't get enough support and then they feel, you know, like they're working so hard and not getting enough in return.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 4
And then fill it up with your crew. Yeah.
Speaker 2
But then they leave Patriot and it's like I think, I think it could still work but it doesn't have to be so much, you know, people are happy. I actually did a poll on Twitter and asking people why they supported others on Patriot and most of them said just because they want to support them so they don't even do it for the goodies. They're just like, I just got money to create 80, 80 or 90 percent of my patrons don't even like read the post, I swear, like, they just throw money and walk away.
Speaker 2
It's like, thanks, guys. I definitely think I'm one of those. Honestly, I'm so sorry. But I think like most patriots, I think I'm also your patron. So we're just throwing money at each other, patrons making money off of it. Oh, yeah. I mean, I never I have a couple of things that I bought on page, like some podcasts. And you and I have like a writer and an artist and it's like I never actually check what they post.
Speaker 2
I feel so bad, but like I just never it never occurs to me. I mean, I should do it, but like, I just think, like, I'm happy to be supporting these people.
Speaker 4
Yeah. That's that's a of design for.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I logged in once, then I found out that like one of them wasn't even posting anymore. I hadn't posted for like a year. I was like, oh well I don't mind.
Speaker 4
Yeah. You can still have my dollar a month. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Exactly, that is amazing.
Speaker 1
All right, well, I mean, I don't really think we have any more questions. Do you have any more questions, sir?
Speaker 4
I was just going to say the one thing we kind of didn't cover would be like since the main topic of our blog podcast thingy is like, you know, that taking care of the physical health. Can you tell us a little bit more about like what you're like? What do you like typically during the day? Do you do like a lot of stretching during the day? Do you have, like, designed breaks for like that kind of stuff? Like how do you remind yourself to like drink water regularly and like you said, like not forget to eat.
Speaker 4
I really like, you know.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. Let's see. So I have like so many opinions about this, so I might just go into like a super long rant with like let's do it.
Speaker 4
Yeah. You know, we're all up. We're all about that. All about that.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So what I really recommend in general, if you feel like there's room for improvement in your health as an artist is like to do weekly reviews, because I mentioned earlier that that's what I do. So every week for me, Monday works. But you can also do it on a Friday when the week is over, like whatever works. But for me, it really helps to kind of like look at the week and then all I really do is like a kind of write down, like what went well and what didn't, you know?
Speaker 2
And I kind of think about, like, OK, you know, for me usually it's things like, you know, what went well? I did all my tasks, like my to do list is empty. I kept up with my exercise routine and then what didn't go well can be things like I'm noticing that I have more anxiety. I'm like checking the news too often or I feel stressed when I wake up. And then based on that, I will kind of like plan out how the next week looks.
Speaker 2
And usually by just doing that weekly reflection, I've been I've been able to like kind of recalibrate quite regularly before things get really extreme, you know, because sometimes you kind of lose touch with like, how are you doing? Before I did this kind of stuff and had this kind of routine, I would sometimes be like on my way to being, you know, quite depressed for like months before even realizing it. And then by the time I realized that, I was like, already just feeling horrible, you know, like I've noticed it because I was like not able to function as well as normal.
Speaker 2
So I would find out too late. So the weekly reviews really helped me to kind of like recalibrate and kind of get a sense of like what needs work right now, like what's the most urgent issue, because there's always a bunch of errands coming at you and a bunch of things you want to do. But it's, you know, so, so that it's very easy to lose sight of, like, what's important. And the weekly reviews helped me to do that.
Speaker 2
And they usually help me to kind of like figure out what needs the most work when it comes to, like, kind of making sure that I'm healthy.
Speaker 3
Like for me personally, the main thing that works is just making sure that I have that regular exercise. So I had like some hand and some wrist issues. But like as soon as I started working out, like, I haven't had those issues at all, being physically healthy is as much as you can be. You know, being physically fit is is a really great way to kind of work on those pains and those kind of like issues that we can get as artists.
Speaker 3
And even the smallest things can help. Right.
Speaker 3
But I think what I was experiencing before, when I exercise less, is that as like when I was drawing, I was always sitting in the same position, holding a pen in the same way, sitting behind the same workspace. And when I exercise, I'm like doing a different kind of physical activity. And that's sort of what the human body is like, thrives under. If you're doing like different kind of tasks, you know, not one too much, but like a little bit of this, little bit of that.
Speaker 3
And then nothing will drag you down too much in the end. Right. Or you can recalibrate if one of those things is too much. So that's, I think, what artists really need to do as people who tend to like, you know, who are like me, maybe sitting behind their computer for hours on end in one posture, make sure that you kind of like switch it up, you know, maybe move to a different workspace sometimes, you know, exercise do do different kind of physical movements.
Speaker 3
That change of scenery usually helps me as well. So that's why I kind of split up my workday into, like the morning part at home and the afternoon part somewhere else, because that changing the scenery helps me kind of switch up the posture that I'm in and also the mental state. So I think you can even achieve that. But kind of like moving from your dining table to your desk, for example. That really helps me. And you're basically keeping a routine, like I basically set up a routine for myself and I decided like, OK, I'm going to stick to this.
Speaker 3
And now I've been doing it for a while and I know it's time to recalibrate. So I work on making a new routine. So I think if you make a routine and a structure for yourself, build in moments where you can kind of check what's working about it and see what it needs to change so that you don't get stuck in it, because if you get stuck in your routine and you don't recalibrate, it'll become an all or nothing thing.
Speaker 3
You'll either be like in your routine or you'll like, let it all go and you'll be like you'll have no structure whatsoever, which is what I used to do, like sort of cycling between zero structure and extremely structured. But you want to make sure that you have like a nice, manageable structure that you can recalibrate and change as you go. I think that that will help you sort of maintain your physical health, your mental health and your creativity as excellent pandemic advice.
Speaker 3
Yeah, some of the best art and art pandemic advice I've ever gotten.
Speaker 4
And it's like, you know, right now it's the pandemic. But in five years, it could be like a personal problem in your life that comes up or, you know, like the whatever the thing is, that's like messing with your stuff. It's always going to be different. But like just having that, like, sense that says, like internally, like, I can I can check in on myself and I can reassess and I can change.
Speaker 4
You know, I've got a seven year old and she's been out of school all summer. This is like, you know, last summer was my first summer where she didn't have any kind of daycare or whatever, and it ended up being the Copan Summer. So she was literally home from March of twenty twenty until, you know, April of this year. And that was not what I was expecting. There was adjustment.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was had it so rough.
Speaker 4
Oh it was overwhelming, you know, and, and, but you know, being able to look at it and being sensitive to your own stuff enough to say like I need to be more like nice to myself right now. Like I said, I'm not going to get it all done.
Speaker 2
Yeah. For me, that's been a lot like during the I was doing those weekly reviews already, you know, when the pandemic hit. And those were like the hardest months for me, like in March and April. And I had days where I was like, OK, I'm just going to work for like two hours today. That's already a huge achievement for me in this time when my my brain is totally full and I'm barely functioning, you know, and then I'll slowly build it up when I feel ready.
Speaker 2
So I think a big part of those weekly reviews is like admitting when it's time to slow down as well. I mean, as somebody who pushed myself too hard usually and if you're somebody who needs a push, then you could say, like, all right, it's time to give that push, you know, but you do have to factor in your limitations and your boundaries.
Speaker 1
I love that you have such a realistic view on limitations and boundaries, too. It's like with me I have I definitely I'm like, yeah, I feel like I can do two hours of work. I'm going to do 10. And obviously, that's that's that's so bad. So I love that you've gotten to the point in your career that you're just like, no, I understand what the problem is. And I will act like appropriately towards that because like, it's not great if you're like, well, I'm going to do 10 hours of work anyways.
Speaker 1
That's suboptimal. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Although I do want to nuance it a little bit like I have this excellent advice. Like, as I'm saying it, I'm like, that is great advice because there are days that I don't follow my own advice, you know, where I'm like, well, like especially if I'm like, you know, struggling a bit mentally. I just like I'll start my workday too late, but then I'll continue working until like 10 p.m. and skip dinner, you know, like do things like that where I'm like and as I'm doing it, I'm like, oh, this is a sign that I'm not doing so well.
Speaker 2
But somehow, like switching out of my work activity is just mentally too draining. So I just keep working. Like that's easier for me than, like saying, all right, it's time to get up and leave and take care of myself. Like, that's just too exhausting. So I'll just keep working until I'm tired. It's very weird habit. I think everybody has their own kind of strange routines and like things that aren't that good for themselves that they do when they're struggling.
Speaker 2
And sometimes it's just going to happen. And all you can do is wake up the next day and be like, well, today I'll try not to do that. Yeah, that's the only way we can.
Speaker 1
That's right. That's all you can do, right?
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. Don't beat yourself up for it too much, which is also something that I do. But I tell myself not to yell.
Speaker 4
So what are your own best friend? It's hard to gastrin until you tell yourself things that you would tell your buddy. Well, that was the same thing. We talk about this a lot on this podcast because it's like if your BF was like, man, this is my thing right now. And I, you know, this is what's messed me up. And you'd be like, well, Fred, you need to take care of yourself. But doing that for yourself is sometimes extra hard.
Speaker 2
Yeah. For some reason, it never comes to mind, which is why it's one of the best tips, really, because when I do do that, like sometimes I do have the self talk or I'm like, OK, Lois, I think we're tired right now. And I try to like, take care of myself. And I'm like, oh, it works really well.
Speaker 4
I think we need a nap. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So when did you eat last. Yeah. Yeah. The last time you had a vegetable.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Good thing I have a boyfriend who's a really good cook. He tends to do all that stuff for me.
Speaker 1
That's you are living the dream. That is a nice perk. Yeah.
Speaker 1
OK, cool. So I mean yeah I think that's everything that I had to talk about. That was an awesome follow up question Sara. So yeah. Unless we have anything else comes up I think that's about rep. What a great shit. Yeah. This is amazing. Thank you so, so, so much for doing this. You said you had so many wonderful little gems of knowledge. I actually think what I'm going to do is go back and listen to what you said about the weekly review.
Speaker 1
And I'm going to make a little worksheet that people can download and be like, OK, let's review our week and hopefully. Oh, yeah, be good to ourselves.
Speaker 2
Yeah, that is such a good idea. I'm such a big fan of this stuff. Like I secretly OK, because like I said, I can't if you say it.
Speaker 4
That's right. I said anyway I've said, I've said a lot of times it's it's an open secret that I'm really into self-help books and I kind of like want to write one one day for artists. So I have so many opinions about, like, you know, productivity and maintaining your mental health. And I'm like a huge worksheet fan.
Speaker 4
So like as I work, I feel this love of the art productivity as well. And I'm a big fan of putting signs in front of my face at my desk that says, like, you are your best friend. So take care of yourself, friend. You know, that's important part, too. I was like, you probably can't be working at your best capacity and you probably can't be your best self if you're not actually your own friend.
Speaker 2
Hm. So true. And the reminder helps. Yeah. Because it's so weird how sometimes like somebody said something to you a bazillion times like oh be your own friend, you're like yeah, yeah. But then when you're a student you're struggling, you just forget it. But like having a big post-it that says it right in front of your face could make a huge difference.
Speaker 4
Yeah. The only way I remember anything.
Speaker 2
You found your technique.
Speaker 4
I sure did. It's a lot of things.
Speaker 1
Oh, that's amazing. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on to talk to us like this is so much awesome.
Speaker 2
Yeah, it was a great talk.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Really appreciate it. OK, guys, so this has been our topic. With Lois or Loish as she goes online, and I thought it was awesome, thanks again. And we will be back on the 1st and fifteenth of every month for the new content. So thank you so much both. And I hope everyone goes and makes some really great art today.
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Sarah, Sarah, and Lois
Discussed by Sarah Dahlinger, Sarah Forde, Lois van Baarle aka Loish